Every once in a while I come a across a post that has an incredibly large number of links in it. The links are excessive and seem to be a part of some deranged hyper-SEO strategy. The links don't help the reader but are more of a distraction. It's understandable that a member would be attempting to get attention from a search engine this way but linking like this produces long-term negative effects.
The fact is that this sort of linking is considered abusive. It's abusive to the search engines and searchers, to your readers, and to The ActiveRain Real Estate Community. Please remember that the engineers that work for search engines are also thinking 'search engine optimization.' That optimization is done in the name of delivering greater and greater relevant content to searchers. As search technologies are adjusted the direction toward greater performance in relevancy delivery means that attempts with abusive linking campaigns will become time wasted.
Furthermore search technologies include methods to penalize those that would abuse the system. Penalized sites can be de-listed all together, taking you out of the search results.
Morgan Carey of Real Estate Webmasters recently posted on issues that can come up with linking. Excessive linking is often considered spam and in those cases that we see a member intentionally spamming the network we will take action. "Action" might mean point deductions, but it can lead to removal from the community.
It is natural to have a links when blogging, and links should be used where they can. However links must be relevant to the conversation. Writing should be for your readers more that for the search engines. We work to optimize your blogs, and profiles as much as possible. The extra step you need to take is writing relevant and interesting topics to so that potential customers looking for information will find you as a resource.
If you see excessive linking in a post, please flag it so we can help the blogger.
I'll be watching. I love telling on people. This is a good one for ARDELL, too.
Caleb
I'm very guilty of using numerous links to validate sources and information.
In your opinion, how many links can we safely include in a typical post?
I learned from someone I value as a good source of information (here on AR) that to keep any linking to outside links to a minimum. I trust that source and believe that it does create havoc. I usually link to another member for members only posts and keep the localism for me and if I need to refer to the website that I am talking about a certain person to give that person credit. Other than that, I'm sure you'll let me know...right Caleb?
Let me know if I'm on the right path here.
Yes I agree 100% stop the out links we don't want Active rain to be given a penalty for being seen as a link farm.
I'm no expert, but, IMO,
Content is king, content is king.
Now that ActiveRain and Localism articles are indexed by Google just like little websites, they need to be optomized as such.
Want to have Google index your post? Put some good keywords in the title, have content that is relevant to the title. What would a home buyer be searching for? Include some relevant keyword phrases in the text.
EXAMPLE: POSTED ON AUGUST 4, 2007 and in Google SERP today.
Search term: New Homes Prince William County
Real Estate Blog - NEW HOMES IN PRINCE WILLIAM COUNTY VIRGINIA ...
activerain.com/blogsview/164949/NEW-HOMES-IN-PRINCE - 49k - Aug 4, 2007 - Cached - Similar pages
Just like a little web page.
Parked :)
Ed, if you're validating source information it's likely highly relevant to the conversation and I'd leave it in there.
Sally, I'm not saying to keep your links to a minimum, but keep them relevant. Of course we will often want to link off to our websites, and that is appropriate. But see Morgan's post for an example of excessive linking.
If I see it I try to let the person know. If it's clearly abusive they'll get penalized.
Most cases aren't abusive.
Outbound links are just fine. This is a question of being excessive.
Len You are right the articles are indexed, somewhat like little websites, and just like a website, excessive irrelevant links and keywords can create negative effects.
Morgan Carey recommends 1 outbound link per 150 words of content posted. While I feel the guideline is helpful I don't think this should be seen as a hard and fast rule. Excessive use of links and keywords is usually blatant and obvious.
Linking and keywords are good things, but this is a question of too much of a good thing. This is why my recommendation is just write. In regular writing we will cite our sources, we will create links, and we will use effective Keywords.
Kevin has a post here, in it he could very well have posted the links to each person and it would have been fine.
On the other hand I have someone else that writes like this:
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What is the Seattle MLS?
The (website link) Seattle MLS stands for Multiple Listing Service. The MLS combines the information of all the available listings (sold or current) and is made available to members of the (website link) Seattle MLS. Realtors® make use of this system when searching out homes for a buyer, or when assign the value of a home for a person who would like to place their home on the market. Before computers became so popular (website link) Seattle Real Estate agents used the more primitive form of the MLS which was a monthly print out of all the available listings.
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Linking in the manner of the above isn't appropriate.
Thanks for the good info. Will definitely keep this in mind for future posts.
When you get to the top of the Search Engines, you want to have come by it honestly. Good content.
Links relevant to the article and appropriate are fine, without limit. Linking to people as a scheme or constantly to yourself, any linking to game the search engines is wrong. Wrong intent = wrong.
Just write good articles. Don't worry about the search engines. If they don't find you...write more and write better.
You can be a top agent and be ethical...you can be a top blogger the same way. Just be good enough to get there.
Caleb, Nice post, I hope the community will understand that quality links are fine. As to the number of links per post I average about 3
One of the most important elements to linking is not only the relevant link but that the page that is receiving the link be Relevant as well I.E
If you are linking to your "contact me" Page make sure that you do not stuff that pages with keywords/Content, it should be clean and directing related to the content of the page. When I review other sites, I am always amazed how the keywords are the same for each page. This goes for Descriptions as well.
"Contact Mitchell Jamel Realtor with Brite Realty" not " St Augustine Realtor, Homes for Sale"
"Allow no more than an average of 1 outbound link per 150 words of content posted."
You broke Morgan's proposed rule, Caleb. =-)
That's not to say that I didn't appreciate your content. I think a little external support is good for the conversation.
Good post, Caleb, with some helpful discussion. I know I have a tendency to put more links that I probably should in my Localism posts.
Jeff
Good post, Caleb, with some helpful discussion. I know I have a tendency to put more links that I probably should in my Localism posts.
Jeff
Good post, Caleb, with some helpful discussion. I know I have a tendency to put more links that I probably should in my Localism posts.
Jeff
Caleb, this is a great post and excellent info. I hadn't thought about many aspects of what you wrote about here. I went back and revised a recent post of mine following the 1/150 rule of thumb by removing some of my links (even though they were completely relevant to the subject matter). I think it cleans the post up and makes it look more professional too.
Glad to see you back,
Jo
I came back to see if there were any more clear answers...I understand the excessive. The blatant over use of MANY links that only lead back to the person's main site(S).
I'm sending this to Dustin, my blogging guru.
I'm curious about the linking inside Active Rain vs. Outside Active Rain statements in the comment. My perception that linking inside active rain all the time is worse than linking to relevant articles outside Active Rain. But I'm not sure.
There are tons of internal link posts that seem very appropriate for those looking for the nuggets. For week in review posts, the links ARE the post. Wondering if that's OK, though in a normal blog it would be ludicrous to write a "week in review" linking to your own posts. Is "your own" all of Active Rain, in this context.
Let's see if I can get Dustin to respond.
I look forward to Dustin's response. He wrote a terrific article on the importance of linking in '05 that is still relevant today.
, however it shouldn't matter if you're linking internally or not. Spam is spam. I feel like I'm preaching to the choir here. As far as I know the people who have responded aren't guilty of abusive linking campaigns.
If a link is appropriate for the post it's fine. Most often the issue arises when someone blogs like this:
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Joe at Joe's (website link)real estate, (website link)seattle real estate. Joes has fabulous listings on (website link) Joes seattle real estate website.
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OR here's another example I just found:
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Active Rain provides a great resource for networking with other Real Estate Professionals. Those listed here provide great service and a smooth, worry free transaction.
Highlands Ranch Colorado one of the top 100 places to live.
Click to search all (link removed) Highlands Ranch Homes for Sale
Click for your (link removed) Free Denver Home Search
Click to get in touch with your (link removed) Highlands Ranch Realtor
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and another:
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Common Selling Mistakes
Learn the top nine selling mistakes, and what steps you can take to avoid them. (link removed) CLICK HERE to find out more.
Visit our (link removed) Buyer Info Center to get (link removed)FREE reports on buying a home, (link removed) search for available homes for sale, view our (link removed) Newsletter, get information on (link removed) relocating, view (link removed) virtual tours and much more. (link removed) Click Here to enter
Visit our (link removed) Seller Info Center to get(link removed) FREE reports on selling a home, request a (link removed) FREE seller CD full of tips on getting your home ready to put on the market, request a (link removed) FREE market analysis on your home, and much more. (link removed) Click Here to enter
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The above examples are obvious and blatant as link/keyword spam.
Alternatively a number of members have tried to generate link love by creating large lists of their fellow members to link to in posts. Posts of this nature consist of what I wrote above with lines repeated for different agents in different locations. A post of that nature isn't appropriate.
It is appropriate to link to say a terrific post I saw today by Ardell on The Rain City Guide about closing times.
Concerted efforts to scam the search engines are the ones that will get you in trouble. Google has a terrific explanation of Link Schemes here.
This quote from the above linked page is a good one:
The best way to get other sites to create relevant links to yours is to create unique, relevant content that can quickly gain popularity in the Internet community. The more useful content you have, the greater the chances someone else will find that content valuable to their readers and link to it. Before making any single decision, you should ask yourself the question: Is this going to be beneficial for my page’s visitors? From Google.com Webmaster Help Center.
In essence Ardell's comment : When you get to the top of the Search Engines, you want to have come by it honestly. Good content. Is reflected in the above statement.
Morgan's post is a great place to look for more thoughts on this.
I realize this is more nuanced than most folks want to see it. The truth is in most cases everyone is fine, there are exceptions to the rule however and they are who this post is designed for.
Oops I was fixing Melissa's account at this same time, so it logged the comment as from her, sorry.
Caleb,
Respectfully, your blog seems passionate, yet vague to what you are looking to accomplish. Giving permission to have agents "flag" without definitive rules seems to give a "torch and pitchfork" to anyone who may not like a particular post that contains "links" that they feel are too many. To me, it sounds a little subjective.
The spamming thing, I am not too familiar with. I know I get spam from Activerainers in my email, but I just delete it. I never make a stink about it. Some agents spam, I don't. Such is the world.
But, for the sake of gathering intelligence (food for thought), links can be a life-line to a professional that has notcome across a certain website, product or service in their every day internet existence. I think that is why many agents are on Activerain, to nourish their minds and spirits. Links are a banquet for agents to devour and grow their business. Links (inside or outside AR) are also important to reinforce a point someone is trying to make.
In my opinion, if there is a misunderstanding to the relevance of a post, shouldn't that someone politely ask for clarification in a comment, instead of condemning it with a 'flag". Wouldn't that stimulate a conversation without regressing into unprofessional behavior.
From the ActiveRain, What we stand for:
"...ActiveRain believes that it is in the best interests of real estate professionals to build a community that is focused on educating one another"
Nowadays, even Realtor Magazine iis a supper of advertisements sprinkled with relevant real estatearticles.
There are external blogs (non-real estate related) that focus on gathering intelligence, innovation and links. These websites are fabulous resources that should be brought to agents attention in AR.
In jest, this reminds me of the Pirate's Code and a line from Pirates of the Caribbean. "Hang the code, and hang the rules. They're more like guidelines anyway."
Isn't there a better way to "help them", as you stated, in a professional, kinder and more courteous way, without flat out condemning their article and executing it by dropping a flag?
Chris,
Thanks for your comment. To answer your question, it is subjective, and it is nuanced.
Please know that flagging a post is simply nominating it for review, good or bad.
This post was created in response to some linking programs that some members began engaging in, that are inappropriate and detrimental to the community. Not to your average blogger who's got some interesting things to point out.
If you'll look at ALL of the posts I've made for project blogger they were nothing but links, however, in the context of the post they were necessary and relevant.
This post doesn't address most AR bloggers, but the few who think they will find value in a link scam.
Caleb, thanks for the tip. So much to understand, so little time to adjust!
Caleb,
Thanks for the shout out.
For those of you looking to define "Excessive" perhaps you are looking for the wrong definition - more to the point, everyone should follow this simple rule "Do not link to an outside page within your blog post unless it will truly help your visitor" - If you are going to hyperlink something in your post, ask yourself is this link truly relevant to what I am talking about and will it help my visitors by providing more in depth information about the hyper linked topic not appropriate to be covered in the blog post itself?
For instance: I might want to write a blog post or press release about my company Real Estate Webmasters. Now lets assume I decided to write this release or blog post centered around our products and services (Custom web design, search engine optimization, IDX etc) - now in writing this thing, I might write something like this in my intro "Real Estate Webmasters is one of Canada's largest custom web development companies with headquarters located in Beautiful Nanaimo, British Columbia, Canada. (Begin actual discussion of REW)
Now I am not writing this article to promote Nanaimo, in fact I am mentioning it in passing, and I want to stay on focus in terms of our products and services, however my readers might go "Nanaimo - Where is that?" -Notice I hyperlinked Nanaimo to an outbound source http://www.tourismnanaimo.com (I could have also linked to http://www.nanaimoinformation.com the point being is I am linking to sources that are true authorities on the city of Nanaimo, and not some page on my own domain www.realestatewebmasters.com that may have some obscure mention of Nanaimo just so I can get myself a few backlinks. Does that make sense?
This whole thing started over at REW Blogs when I posted about being sick of outbound link abuse, you can read that post here
Now you will notice I have outbound links in my comment, and no I am not about to count how many links are posted vs text because really that was a suggested guideline, not a hard and fast rule, and the actual amount of links is not the point - the fact of the matter is, every link posted in this comment was done so in order to support the comment and be useful to the readers - the relevance and helpfulness of the links should be the measure of the appropriateness of an outbound link.
Incidentally, you will note that I talked about my services in this post (Web design, IDX etc) but notice I did not try to hyperlink those phrases to the relevant pages on my site that promotes those services - that would be excessive and is the kind of thing I am trying to help people learn NOT to do.
Was this helpful?
My partner is just learning to post and comment. He asked me how he links to me. My first thought was to say maybe he shouldn't be linking to me :) But when somone is just learning how to link, it is easier for him to link to something familiar. So I'm going to cut him some slack.
When you are first learning to blog, it is better to just write and ignore some of the overall strategy. I think people get into trouble when they get frustrated at not having readers, comments or search engine placement. Then they start trying to game the system to achieve these things. That's when the trouble starts.
When the motivation of your writing becomes self oriented, more readers, more linkage, more for me...things go sideways fast.
Remember that clients, actual clients, rarely comment on the blog. They usually contact you separately after reading the blog. So you are always writing for the benefit of your next client.
Here is one example of link spam that is inappropriate. Going forward activity like this could result in expulsion. I am working with this particular member however.
http://activerain.com/blogsview/168065/Vernon-Automated-Homefinder-Service
http://activerain.com/blogsview/167956/Verona-Automated-Homefinder-Service
http://activerain.com/blogsview/167952/Newark-Automated-Homefinder-Service
http://activerain.com/blogsview/167948/Mountain-Lakes-Automated-Homefinder
http://activerain.com/blogsview/167936/Morris-Plains-Automated-Homefinder
http://activerain.com/blogsview/167933/Mendham-Automated-Homefinder-Service
http://activerain.com/blogsview/167926/Madison-Automated-Homefinder-Service
http://activerain.com/blogsview/167916/Little-Falls-Automated-Homefinder
http://activerain.com/blogsview/167909/Lincoln-Park-Automated-Homefinder
http://activerain.com/blogsview/166801/Kinnelon-Free-Automated-Homefinder
http://activerain.com/blogsview/164753/Franklin-Lakes-Free-Automated
http://activerain.com/blogsview/164748/Franklin-Free-Automated-Homefinder
http://activerain.com/blogsview/164743/Fairview-Free-Automated-Homefinder
http://activerain.com/blogsview/164739/East-Orange-Free-Automated
http://activerain.com/blogsview/164738/East-Hanover-Automated-Homefinder
http://activerain.com/blogsview/164682/Denville-Free-Automated-Homefinder
http://activerain.com/blogsview/164679/Clifton-Free-Automated-Homefinder
http://activerain.com/blogsview/158568/Cedar-Grove-Free-Automated
Wow Caleb stepped up to the plate with new pics!!!! That other one was a bit odd. Was that seeweed in front of your face?
I have to say for an on-line community AR is very "concerned" with "looking good".....and I hope I had something to do with it!
I'm deep, huh?
Hi Caleb....thanks for the responses...this topic proved worthy to inform the AR community. I as well as others who want to keep the "Self Interest" (Ardell's comment) to a minimum and instead promote self in a professional manner found this enlightening and helpful.
They link out to google and blogspot posts.
*seaweed..doh
Here is an excellent article on Charles' Blog for balance:
http://activerain.com/blogsview/166728/Don-t-let-the
If he did nine of these to every one like the other type to insure people find these, I would be OK with that. Some kind of formula and more relevant text in his SEO fishing posts for balance.
He can do everything he is trying to do, just a little differently, and it won't read like spam but still incorporate all of his key objectives.
Caleb - this post sure generated some good conversation about linking - what's good, bad and somewhere in between. My posts have varied on links as I've learned here from others. At the end of some of my localism posts, I include links to other area related posts I've done, and I do see that as being relevant to the consumer who (I hope!) is looking at my localism posts. I only include those localism posts and not any others I've written.
Is that acceptable, since they're relevant local information? If not, I can go back as time allows and edit those posts. I know there are plenty of us who do that on our local posts and no doubt we'd all be interested in learning the thoughts about us doing that.
Many thanks,
Ann
Those pesky hyper links. Some like Maine black flies and can drive you mad.