Mouth 2 Mouth

Caleb ~ I waited tables too!  I knew there was something about you that piqued my interest!  I couldn't agree with you more.  People forgive honesty before they forgive liars.

Great post and I am getting sick of seeing newspaper articles copied and pasted too.  I can just go read the inman feed at Realtor.org if I wanted to see real estate news.

THANKS 5*****

 I guess the software or whatever you are developing will be useful.  Are we talking about copying or just people that don't watch what has already been posted and post something on the same subject? 

I haven't seen any of these folks in action....but why plagiarize real estate material for a nationwide real estate professional community to look at?  Surely you will get caught!  Its just not thinking....

Caleb, you all impress me very much with your response time to issues raised by the members. Kudos.

Thanks, Caleb.  This has been a sore point for me.  I have seen many blogs and forum posts about this very topic.   It is good to know that AR is pursuing ways to end the practice of cut-and-paste plagiarism.

You guys always have something in the works to make this place better.

(I also waited tables at Red Robin ... about 10 years ago.) I DO know of one cut 'n pater that has mysteriously fell of the face of the AR planet. I majored in Literature, and try to do my best to cite all works, and make my posts legit. Thank you for the post.

Hi Caleb, I too was a waiter for 10 years. One of the best jobs I ever had.

Plagiarism truly is a waste of our time and the waste of an awesome opportunity, we have on AR, to expose the consumer to the cream of our business. I just don't get it. Be original, all the time. If you don't have anything original to say then don't write that day. You don't have to post 10 times a week. In fact if you look at the top bloggers they never post 10 times a week. It's quality not quantity that rises to the top.

Although I feel very new to the AR scene, I am pleased that you guys keep a keen eye on how the blogs go and are working to improve on a system that is working wonders so far!!!

Caleb, simply, thank you. I don't find it easy to write so maybe unique content is more important to me because of it. I hate the thought of someone taking credit for another's work. Well-done and well-timed.

PS - I made us a Christmas Present 'cause you guys are busy with other things. You can find it on my blog.

Wow... you really ARE GODS.

I do a little gripping on one day... and POOF! Like magic... my pilfering gripes are gone.

Ahhhhhh... once again PEACE reigns in the Rain.

THANKS GUYS THANKS!

Thanks, Caleb.  I hope it works and maybe just runs off the lazy people who are copying and pasting...or jolts them into writing original content!  I waited tables for a long time-do I detect a trend here?

Caleb,

I know this is a serious matter but I just read the links on your blog and Jim Lee's was very funny. I can't beleive someone would copy someone elses testimonials. Making one up alltogether is dishonest but not as bad as using someone else's.

To actually provide some more specifics on our solution:

We are implemented a way for people to flag posts (spam, copyright violation/plagerised, miscatagorized, nominate as featured, etc).  In fact this will probably be online by the end of the weekend.  These flags will be evaluated automatically and actions will be taken which may include removing points, notifying the offender, removing the post from a catagory and notifying us to investigate. 

The trick has been how to automate this without opening us up for abuse.  For example someone flagging a post simply because they don't agree with the viewpoint, or they don't like the poster.  This means there has to be lots of checks and balances in place, such as automatically evaluating patterns of people that are flagging posts.

While we are not going to censor people... 

If people are showing a pattern of blatently posting copyrighted material (which has a negative impact on the community as a whole), we will warn them to clean up there act, and if they don't they will not be blogging on ActiveRain.

This will NOT effect the vast majority of bloggers on ActiveRain.  In blogging there is always a fair amount of taking someones general idea and talking about it through your own words, or quoting other people.  This is something that is viewed positively, unlike flat out reposting and= article from Inman News without permission.

Trust me we get hundreds of emails from people asking us to clean up the plagerism/copyright violations occuring on ActiveRain.  It just takes a long time to evaluate a good solution that doesn't negatively impact everyone else, and also doesn't put us in the position of being "ActiveRain Dictators"

Thank You Caleb, What a shame that this stuff happens!

My guess is most of those who cheat will go away on their own. Birds of a feather....

I want to second something that Matt said(as The ActiveRain Real Estate Network).

Blogs by their very nature are often responses to other content out there on the web.  In that spirit a blogger will cite references from other sources describe their content and then launch into a response that is of the writers own words.

These are a very common types of blogs, and I encourage them.  They contain a unique perspective and a unique insight and it's sometimes the easiest way to get the creative juices flowing.

Great Post !! 

 

I am floored by the first link (the only one I followed in your post Caleb re: previous plagiarism issues on AR) - Kristal's saga back in September, how amazing!  I wonder if that guy didn't even go to college, I think they now teach kids how to paraphrase so they aren't technically plagiarising...

I had no idea that the problem was THIS severe - after reading Kristal's post (1st one in the above post) I was shocked.

How can people be that crazy / stupid?!?

Thanks for working on a solution guys - it's a shame that time has to be wased on something like this......

Good information posted here, thank you Caleb!

Oh! Man! I am so glad to see this post coming out of Active Rain. Yah. We have a few problems with the cut and paste people. :) Glad to see you addressing this. Yay. Now let's hope the CC people read this post. Blogging is all about being original. If it's not original you lose your audience and die a slow painful Blogging death :) TLW...ROAR!

ActiveRain Dictators...now that made me laugh :)

I don't know why anyone would want to pursue the plaragism (sp) path other than to get quick points with very little effort...as others have pointed out its just not worth...i can't wait to see the updates!! NIce work Caleb and gang!

Thank you for trying to find and implement a system to better handle the plagiarism found here.  I also thought it was interesting that Matt mentioned the system may include a way for members to nominate a post as one they believe should be featured.  I only hope that feature allows more new or newer members to be featured even though their posts (the really good ones) oftentimes don't get read as much as the established blogger's posts do.  We should all be regularly adding to our "associates" as we find new/good bloggers.

Caleb.  You should have mentioned my experience with copyright violators.  I collected over $100,000 in damages from map thieves last year. 

Perhaps that would get some attention.

Lenn

 

It's hard to understand why anyone would bother when this sort ofthing is so easy to check out. It's unfortunate that you have to raise the issue again, Caleb. I read Kristal's post on this - it was before my day. Glad to see the Jersey Girl is not with us (unless under an assumed identity).

One thing that is not discussed here and that there have been complaints about is market reports.  Some people are upset that others are taking market stats from their MLS or third party providers and posting them.  There have been a couple of posts about this lately.  I would like to know what ActiveRain's official position is on market reports (especially those that are charts or graphs) is so that that issue could be laid to rest. 

Good question, MF... I'd be interested to know, too.

Good question Maureen, I've wondered too. I've never posted a market report for that reason.

Market reports:

Collecting Statistical Data from your MLS and redisplaying it for consumers to read is not plagiarism.  As a member of your MLS you usually have access and permission to post this data, although it's always good form to cite your sources.

This is not plagiarism and does not fall under that category.

So a member could go ahead and post market reports if they wish.  There's nothing dishonest or lacking in that behavior.

That being said:

 1. This could be abused if all a person was to do was to post lots of market reports, redisplaying data in different ways that clearly have very little value when taken as a whole.

2.  In my humble opinion I think a consumer would like to see a little bit of analysis with the data.  If I were to come to your site and see a chart I'd want to see it explained.  That makes the poster look intelligent, and like an authority.  But to simply display a chart would confuse me.  I'd say offer some analysis to back up your chart.

 

What does it mean?  What does it show?  How have things changed?  Give some back-ground.  If there are more concerns about this I can address it in a separate post.

One of the great things about being in the Rain is sharing ideas and perspectives on others ideas. This flow of infomation benefits all of us. It is important to credit your original source or at least to not claim it was your original idea.

What is described above hurts that free flow of ideas because the infoermation will appear to be tainted. Trust is important in fact critical. 

I see that this is a sore subject with many as it should be. 

Wow!   I had no idea of the history of this.  And Lenn, did you blog about the map thievery? - I'd love to read the story!

Either I have not read any of the aforementioned offending blogs, or I am really dense!  However, this subject really seems to be gaining a lot of momentum here on AR. 

I must admit that I have never heard of using "crtl+A", "crtl+c", etc. What is that - a shortcut to 'cut and paste'? (I'm really not very computer savvy!)

Thanks for giving us a vehicle to report violators.  I hate to see this happening, but it's not going to stop until these people are bopped over the head a few times.  I still think there are folks using AR that do not know we are all reading their posts.  They think they are just blogging on their own little blog. 

 Good luck with it...

kk

Very important topic.

 I take pride in what I write. I am very sure that anyone that takes the time to write something important does the same. I looked through your examples and one in particular sparked my attention. A post here stated that the user did not know that copying pictures that did not specifically say 'copyright' was an infringement of copyright. Maybe a quick update to the FAQ with the title "What is copyright infringement?" would suffice the interim of a greater solution.

I'm not even going to get started on this.

Keep the warnings coming.  It;s just not fair to those that spend HOURS on the computer, reading, researching, and writing.

Well, there I go again. 

Caleb, it is definitely appreciated for this to come from the Top Dawgs. The troops need a constant reminder of this issue. There can be some very well intended individuals, many who are perhaps new to ActiveRain, and really are rather oblivious to the dangers of plagiarism. We need to continue to raise the standard of practice, and promote the importance and value of original content and giving credit where credit is due.

The best and easiest tool to use to see if anyone around the web is copying your content is CopyScape.

That being said, this is the web, you can't prevent people from  infringing on your copyright and fact is, the content has no provable monetary value unless you have published a book.  The best you can do is nicely ask them to remove it, re-word it or give you credit for it. 

I get copied all the time, not necessarily here, on AR, but if I got my panties in a bunch each time that happened and attacked some poor mis-informed fool for doing it- I could easily blow 2 hours of my day.  I find the best way to deal with it- is to mention the copied content, say you are flattered and offer yourself as a guest blogger on their blog.  That way you have prevented them from doing it again and have won a friend instead of made an enemy.

I, personally, think it is a colossal waste of time for AR to write code to prevent plagiarism.  My fear with super policing duplicate content on AR is that there are certain contrarian members that feel that if you wrote a post with a similar theme as theirs- you stole their "idea."     How far will AR go to appease these people?  A social network should largely police itself and deal with plagiarism just like other disputes, naturally by allowing it to remain an issue between members.  Teach people to behave with integrity- don't force it on them- they don't learn anything that way.  This should be a training grounds for the outside blogosphere and out there- people get pissed when you copy them.  Let it happen here- so the copiers learn.

The best revenge is removing the plagerized posts...and if it continues, removing the plagerizing blogger.

Mary. Personally I think if AR does not address this issue the AR community will kitty fight and puppy fight amongst each other in their Blogs. It is only a matter of time before the 'animal' fighting starts over this issue. I have already seen such 'animal' fighting in relation to other topics. :) As this site is public and open to anyone that wants to join the 'animal' fighting on Blogs reflects badly on the Real Estate Industry as a whole. The community may not name names when they put up their 'take a shot' at another Blogger post, but it is pretty clear to anyone reading the post that there is an 'animal' fight going on. :) I mean really should the public see we are unable to Blog without 'animal' fighting and bickering amongst ourselves? I honestly feel that the situation, left on it's own, will go off the deep end between Bloggers. Just my opinion. :) TLW...ROAR!

Caleb,

Thanks for the post. I haven't seen anything that I thought might have been plagiarized. Using another person's work and giving them credit is the sign of a professional, to do otherwise compromises your integrity. In this business integrity should be at the core of your business principles.

With reference to statistical analysis, I collect data from my MLS for specific towns and provide for an analysis of the data for the consumer sector. As Caleb has pointed out there is nothing plagiarized, I research and determine the parameters to be used, the interpretation is mine and the written opinion is mine. The information is valuable to both buyers and seller.

 

 

Mary - I think your comments are very insightful and cautionary.

The thing about that guy from September that was so disgusting was that Nima caught that the guys testimonials WERE NIMA'S TESTIMONIALS. The guy cut & pasted the testimonial content for his profile. Some people....

There was an article on blogging in The Wall Street Journal, December 20th issue (page A18). Unfortunately, you need to be a subscriber to read it online. The title of the article is "The Blog Mob." In keeping with copyright laws and WSJ policies, I will email the article from the WSJ site to anyone wishing to read it. Just let me know by sending your email to homes@gnade.com.

Wow - I can't believe some of that stuff in the links! 

I like what Mary Wrote.

"I find the best way to deal with it- is to mention the copied content, say you are flattered and offer yourself as a guest blogger on their blog.  That way you have prevented them from doing it again and have won a friend instead of made an enemy."

Because in most disputes I've found this is the best approach to take, I fully agree with her on this.

I don't usually see too much of Rainers copying each other.  Usually they take Inman, wikipedia, or some other news source.  Or pages from template web sites like homes.com that the site provider wrote and owns.

I think Mary's approach is super, but I don't think that is where the c&P on AR is coming from. 

I rank plagerizers right down there with spammers. The world would be a better place with neither.

That said, I know a LOT of plagerism is done out of ignorance. People just don't seem to understand. But it's really not that hard to figure out. If you didn't write it yourself, then you should cite the source! It really is just that easy.

Thanks for adding the "Flag Post" thingy. Hopefully THAT doesn't get abused.

Very insightful comments Mary. 

It's a refreshing way to look at it.

Personally I haven't been all that bothered about those that steal others' material here on AR. I rekon karma will catch up eventually.

FYI: These are the copyright laws for online content and acceptable use/excerpting: Chilling Effect

It may be a good idea to link to certain sections of that when the "Flag Post" thingy rolls out.  Simply because I have seen a lot of petty people bickering over idea copying or excerpting - things that clearly do not fall within the definition of plagiarism.

That's an awesome link Mary. Thank you for posting that here. :) TLW...ROAR!

I haven't seen it as a huge problem on AR, but it is good to nip it if possible.  Thank you for takin it on.

I haven't seen it as a huge problem on AR, but it is good to nip it if possible.  Thank you for takin it on.

We wish you a merry Christmas! We wish you a merry Christmas! We wish you a merry Christmas And a happy New Year! Glad tidings we bring To you and your kin! Glad tidings for Christmas And a happy New Year!

Broker Bryant and The Lovely Wife (pretend we are singing it works better like that) ROAR!

I agree with an earlier comment.  The posts that I have seen that are blatent Copy & Paste jobs are from sources like Inman News, and other newsfeeds.

Hi Caleb,  Thank you for addressing this so succinctly.  Just today another Rainer noticed my content on someone else's website.  The removal of my blog from this particular website was swift and silent.  I'm jsut glad that it is done.  I was not aware that we should be looking for these people as a way to protect ourselves, but I do recommend everyone Google their and see what it turns up.  You might be surprised.  By the way that tip was offered to me by fellow Rainer, Laurie Mannie.

Hi Caleb,

 I think it would be a good idea to repost this and feature it

Ginger

I just read Sally's post about this. I didn't realize it was becoming so rampant, but I'm not really surprised. There will always be people who take no pride in their work and are looking for a quick and easy way to the top. The only consolation is, they won't last long because the word will spread.